150: Downton Abbey with Lady Carnarvon

Downton Abbey was filmed at Highclere Castle, which is Lady Carnarvon’s home. On this episode of the Based on a True Story podcast, she’ll join us to talk about the historical accuracy of the Downton Abbey movie and TV series.

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Transcript

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Dan LeFebvre: [00:01:56] Before we dive into some details, I’m always curious how those who are intimately familiar with the real history feel when they first see how filmmakers tried to recreate that history.

Overall, how well do you think Downton Abbey did capturing the essence of the early 20th century at Highclere castle?

Lady Carnarvon: [00:02:15] I think they captured the essence of a costume drama and a family life at the time. It’s not a history documentary, and it didn’t pretend to be. So it was something which everybody much enjoyed and it was a fictional family living in a apparently fictional house, though, in fact, Highclere, which has layers of history.

So it’s not a straightforward answer, but it’s fascinating.

Dan LeFebvre: [00:02:42] Fascinating is a good step though.

Lady Carnarvon: [00:02:44] Yes. I think real history is utterly fascinating. And I think something like Downton engages, and perhaps will send people behind to find out about what really happened, what life was really like, and they’ll do it with their eyes of enjoyment on Downton Abbey and perhaps research some of the momentous events through which our predecessors lived.

Dan LeFebvre: [00:03:06] That leads right into my next question actually, because obviously we all know that movies and TV shows change the names. And you mentioned Downton Abbey not being a real place, but it is based on a Highclere Castle, which is a real place.

And you also mentioned that the Crawley family in Downton Abbey is not real. But who really was living there in the early 20th century?

Lady Carnarvon: [00:03:31] The Edwardian times, it was really the most extraordinary couple who did stride the world stage. It was the fifth Earl and Countess of Carnarvon, and they were there in Edwardian times.

In fact, welcoming royalty and extraordinary people from the air and nautical business Egyptology from around the world. Almina was in fact an heiress, but a great heiress because her dowry was one of cash, not entailment. And it was of an extraordinary, significant size as well. So in today’s terms, it was probably about $40 or $50 million, which was a wonderful dowry to have stacked in the bank of Rothschild.

So that was the real diary of the time. And her husband. Was an Egyptologist passionate about Egypt in the Pharaonic Egypt and the etudes dynasty. And he was the one who, after the end of the first world war, would discover the two of two, some common with his colleague, how it Carter. So that was his story, which follows an amazing line.

And actually that’s the next book upon which I’m embarking to write. And his wife Amina, I’ve already written about, and she’s an extraordinary woman who turned hi Claire. Into a proper hospital. In the first world war dance Nabby was a convalescent home in real life. It was something far more and far more significant to many people’s lives, and it was also significant because she welcomed strangers to Highclere people.

She didn’t mention, she didn’t know someone’s husband, someone’s brother, someone’s son, someone’s grandson, and she nursed them for weeks or months and made them better. What is scary in fact, is that often they then return to the trenches of the first world war. So her gift and contribution to other people’s lives was immense.

And there was a proper operating theater at Highclere. And that’s the book I wrote about that time, which has sold in many languages now around the world and is a good metaphor for how I, I think we try to live here. What can we do to help others?

Dan LeFebvre: [00:05:39] During world war one, I got this sense that the chaos of the war outside definitely seeped its way into, Highclere there as well.

can you speak kind of what it was like almost on a, on a day to day basis there during world war one,

Lady Carnarvon: [00:05:54] there wasn’t chaos at all. It takes away, you can’t run a hospital in any sort of Calles. It was very well organized with 30 nurses, adopter and operating theater, some of the best surgeons in the country coming down to operate on a Monday visiting days on Saturdays.

It was a really well organized house and it was regarded as one of the most outstanding military hospitals and our being. There is another Florence Nightingale so far from it. And then she also set up a hospital in London as well, given the number of patients returning from the war. So whilst 100,000 men might be embarking for the trenches of the first world war every month, another 25,000 were turning basad half-dead England every single month.

So it was an extraordinary and devastating time for many families. And I think, I mean, as contribution, as I said, was remarkable. And at the end of the first world war, she was exhausted and then they were combating the flu. So, so what, four or five years to survive and what a gift she gave.

Dan LeFebvre: [00:07:01] Wow. Yeah. I didn’t even think about the flu after, just on the heels of the war and how that must’ve affected everybody there as well.

Lady Carnarvon: [00:07:08] Yes, completely. And Natalie’s, that’s a, I don’t think it was actually, I mean, I think she, she had a tremendous organizational bent, and I suspect she had little patience sometimes because she had so much to do. And she then often took the patients back. So in the archives here are four or 500 letters from those patients or from their mothers.

You know, there’s one from a mother, a Canadian mother, Saint dear lady Carnarvon. I’m thousands of miles from my son. It’s a time of his life. I’d most like to be by his side. But your letters and telegrams of reassurance give me the hope that I may yet see him again and I are not the mothers of Canada.

We’ll be in debt to you for the rest of our lives, and it’s wonderful to think that a woman’s such as you in England doing what they can for our sons.

Dan LeFebvre: [00:07:58] Wow. That’s amazing. Letter to receive.  you mentioned Royal visits, and that is a big part of the movie’s storyline. It talks about King George the fifth and queen Mary coming to visit Downton Abbey.

And you alluded to that earlier. So would I be correct in assuming that? Can you really have visited?

Lady Carnarvon: [00:08:16] Yeah, no. Hi. Claire has been very blessed and welcomed the wife of George, the second queen Caroline in the 18th century. I think queen Victoria came to the, fulfills the fifth or the 4,000 funeral. Edward the seventh came.

We’ve also got the signatures of George the fifth and queen Mary. The Duke of Kent, and obviously the current role of family. And my, my husband’s grandmother is the queen of England. So there’s been many, extraordinary Royal stories to share through the ages for real.

Dan LeFebvre: [00:08:49] And one of the things I was really curious about too, that movie focuses on during that visit is there’s a lot of preparations that the servants are making for the Royal visit, but then there’s conflict between the Royal staff and the staff at Downton.

Has there ever been that sort of conflict that we saw in the movie between the staff trying to prepare for a Royal visit?

Lady Carnarvon: [00:09:09] No, not at all. I mean, there is a lot of planning and preparation, and I tell the story of that to a Royal visit in 1895. And the Royal family are of the guests of the fifth contest and they, they never come with that bachelors or footman.

They come with their ladies made or valid, but they are your guests. It’s your house, it’s your staff. And everyone takes great pride, which is true, and doing their best and serving delicious food and making the visit work well. One

Dan LeFebvre: [00:09:40] key plot point in the movie revolves around Maude back Shaw’s character.

She’s the Queens lady in waiting in the movie and Maggie Smith’s character, the dowager Countess. They don’t agree on who should inherit mods at States. And then through all this, we find out that mod had an illegitimate daughter named Lucy, who she has kept a secret by hiding her in plain sight as her maid.

And. Instead of trying to change MOD’s mind, violet then tries to get Tom Branson and Lucy to marry. So the two households are United. Was there anything from history that sort of resembles this storyline that we see

Lady Carnarvon: [00:10:14] in the movie? No, not really. I mean, I’ve gone back to the, I know quite a lot about the Victorian times and the Edwardian times, and the fifth Ireland counters had two children, a boy and a girl, and the boy became the sick, foul, and, and lady even.

I’m married very happily subro Grove beach of, and was often here, but often staying at this house throughout her life. And then the six L again had, my father in law and daughter Penelope. So much more straightforward, I suppose. But what isn’t straightforward is, is how you keep these extraordinary stately homes of England going, how, what is their role today?

What is their character? And. What is the point of them? To some extent. So that is a question that my husband, I have sought answer for when we took over.

Dan LeFebvre: [00:11:06] That’s actually something that they talked about briefly towards the end of the movie. I think it was lady Mary who was questioning whether, you know downtown when it was built, it was built for a different time in that time doesn’t exist anymore.

And for those of us who are fans of the movie and TV series, I’ve gotten familiar with Downton Abbey during that time period. Can you share some of the ways that Highclere today has changed since the earlier 20th century?

Lady Carnarvon: [00:11:30] Well, it’s had to change enormously because it was once a private house and it had, you know, 14 footman, three Butler’s chefs.

It had a very large, you know, domestic service, adamant, looking after the family here. And there was quite large agricultural and coal mining incomes, which no longer exist. So it’s had to change to think what is a stately home. And in a sense, the second world war, I wrote another book about taking Highclere through to the end of the second world war was the fundamental shift change step for all the stately homes in England.

And after the end of the second world war in the 1950s 1000 stately homes were demolished. So there are far fewer left than there were. And then going through the succeeding decades, it’s been each one to find as it goes from a private to a home, which has shared with the public what its role is and how it can carve out a niche for itself and something with which to engage people.

So that was exactly the questions really that Jordan, my husband’s and I were asking each other when it was our turn to pick, pick up the battle.

Dan LeFebvre: [00:12:42] One thing you mentioned earlier was lady Elmina and when I was reading the book, I couldn’t help but notice a character that’s mentioned in the movie. So I have to ask Mr.

Bates, is that who he’s based on? Is there a real person kind of behind that?

Lady Carnarvon: [00:12:57] I just thought it’s so funny.

No, I’m sure it’s no, but I just couldn’t resist it there. I had a Mr. Bates and Julian Fellowes had a miss debates, so it was just amazing. And I think my miss debates, I think you might’ve lost a leg too. I can’t quite remember now, but I just couldn’t believe it when I, when I picked up the lessors so.

That was just a con, I’m sure complete codes, but some things are meant to be, so you know, you run with it then

Dan LeFebvre: [00:13:27] too. Yeah, for sure. Were there any other characters that were similar to that that just incidentally happened to fall in line with the characters that we see in the series?

Lady Carnarvon: [00:13:36] I wrote the book actually in about two and a half, three months, and I, I was simply working from the back building a scaffolding of the real history and the real battle.

And then. All the letters and diaries detail I had and I had absolutely no time to focus on anything other than the key stories, which kind of flow to my way. And I then delivered it on time because I wanted it to come out when the downturn and went to war. So it was a very key delivery date for publication.

And in some ways it, it, it, it was written from my heart with. And not a huge time to edit. And for that reason, I think it worked. I think people read it as I wrote it and enter into that world.

Dan LeFebvre: [00:14:24] Going back to the movie, one of the more tense parts that we see is while the King and queen are visiting downtown Tom, the character of Tom stops and attempt on the King’s life, was there any sort of attempt on the life of royalty near a Highclere like that?

Lady Carnarvon: [00:14:39] No, not at all actually. I mean, I’m. George, the fifth was in the hole, much, much liked and respected, and there’s nothing that I, the more troublesome times, if you like, with the Irish, tended to be when at home rule in the sort of 1880s and then again in 19 1617 rather than when this film is set sort of 10 11 years later.

So it’s, I mean, there’s always a little bit of nationalism in the background, but the more tense times with Irish home rule and the country violent were a little bit earlier.

Dan LeFebvre: [00:15:18] Speaking of Tom, there was the, his character arc is one that I wanted to ask you about because he goes from, he starts off in the beginning of the series as a chauffeur, and then he becomes the son-in-law of Lord Grantham when he marries lady Sibel.

And then according to the series lady, Sybil passes away in a tragic accident. Hopefully I’m not spoiling it for anybody. That happened quite a long time ago in the series. But then by the timeline of the movie, Tom still hasn’t recovered from the death of his wife, but he does start to fancy Lucy, who we mentioned earlier, and she’s interested in him too, because he can understand what it’s like to rise from a chauffeur and to aristocracy and something that’s she’s assuming is going to happen to her as she gains they inheritance.

Is there anybody from the real history that took that same sort of a, a path that we see Tom Branson do in the series and

Lady Carnarvon: [00:16:12] movie? No. I mean, I think it was more unusual in the first world war, but it was a very useful device for Julian and it produced great storylines. I think things like that, but more prevalent during the second world war because it was really doing the second world war that all the national resources, all the society of England was, was nationalized for one purpose, which was the conduct of the war.

So everyone was rationed. Everyone was in the same boat. So Winston Churchill, a very aristocratic prime minister, effectively nationalized all of our resources and put us all on one footing together. And that was a more likely scenario, though. I don’t know of any such stories here, but in the first world war, the differentiation between what you did and who you served was still probably more defined.

Dan LeFebvre: [00:17:03] What’s one of your favorite stories from the real history that fans who are only familiar with the TV series and movie would be surprised to learn?

Lady Carnarvon: [00:17:11] I don’t know about surprise. I mean, I think there is so many. Rich history layers of history at Highclere. I mean in the, I wrote a book called at home at Thai clear and I picked up four different weekends cause I thought that was such a great line of Maggie Smith.

What’s a weekend from our point, if you’d highly, we’re normally working, I have to say, but because it’s when we’re open to the public. But that particular book looked at a weekend with statesman, one with royalty. One with Henry James literary and one with music. Malcolm Sargent, who was one of our leading, composers and conductors in the 30s and the first weekend led me to, incredibly surprising discovery being the creation of the meaning of Canada, which was conducted much of it here at Highclere 1866 to 67, which involved.

Charles Adams from America whose father and grandfather were president of the USA and the founding fathers of Canada. So I find things like that extraordinary and named in the visitor’s book. Amazing. And when you go through and you find chefy to Havilland who began the, you know, was one of the first men to fly in this country a little bit after the Wright brothers, Charles rolls, rolls Royce, Henry James, Howard Carter, the Duke of Kent, you know, walking chore to fifth queen, Mary Winston Churchill general pattern.

So these are the real people. So I think the richness with which Highclere has welcome to people that always. Never fails to humble me and make me think of all the different people who’ve passed through Highclere. But equally, you know, there’s been a home here since, for 1200 years. So some of my earliest written records are in the late Sachs and times.

And again, I think that helps me personally find an anchor in life and anchor of people who’ve walked in time and space here before me.

Dan LeFebvre: [00:19:09] It’s a fascinating list of people throughout history, and it’s gotta be. I think the way you put it, it’s a, you know, humbling to, to walk the same, same walls as, as some of those names in history.

Lady Carnarvon: [00:19:21] It is amazing. And I know that behind one fireplaces, a medieval fireplace, you know, I’ve found the foundations of a palace here from 1360. I walk across the fields and I can see the remains of a courtyard. It is extraordinary. And I, I find it actually gives me a sense of peace and I think. And have longevity in a world, which seems quite fragmentary and quite challenging at the moment.

Dan LeFebvre: [00:19:47] Have there been a lot of renovations. You mentioned fragments of other parts throughout history. There have been a lot that’s been changed over the years.

Lady Carnarvon: [00:19:54] What, since 749

Dan LeFebvre: [00:19:57] fair point. Fair point. Fair point,

Lady Carnarvon: [00:20:00] yes. But yes, but nothing’s been completely demolished. It’s just been added on to change. We developed, transformed, often old walls, left and new walls.

Plaid. So it’s just been adapted and you know, and I am not sure what that we’ve changed necessarily. So rather than knock everything down and restart, I think it’s a question of looking and seeing, observing and carrying

Dan LeFebvre: [00:20:26] on. When you’re doing updates like that, do you try to capture the way they were originally or do you put this centuries spin on it?

Lady Carnarvon: [00:20:36] I don’t know what I would, where the originality is. So within the saloon, the heart of the castle, which in Danton, it’s called the great hall. That was a med eval, dining hall. You know, in say the 11th century, 12th century, 14th century. I don’t know. I think it was still there, the remains of in the 18th century.

So you’re, you’re looking back and remembering your, acknowledging in different aspects, perhaps from how you dispose the paintings, how you. As, as indisposed on the walls rather than Silva and how you, how you, you know, creative atmosphere, what you’re trying to highlight. So I suppose that’s what I bear in mind and when I am decorating the house and the bedrooms or, and I’ve done quite a lot of decoration because it has to work today.

And I’m thinking about the child’s barrier. It’s a huge masculine castle today created by Charles Barry, who’s created the houses of parliament in 1842 so he was the author of the, of the last transformation. And it’s, I’m conscious of him sitting on my shoulder and the, the sense of, of history. So when I’m decorating, I have definitely got that Victorian spirit, I suppose in mind.

But yet I wanted to be something I liked today and is working today. And of course we do have lights and all candles and which makes a huge difference and a little bit of some, a few, a little bit of heating here and there, but not a lot. So it’s with many thoughts in my mind when I’m looking into each room, but each time I do it, I have learned so much from doing the ones before and from the experience that it’s amazing.

Dan LeFebvre: [00:22:23] You mentioned it’s open on the weekends, correct?

Lady Carnarvon: [00:22:26] It’s open the many weekends or when we end up opening because that’s when more people are likely to have the time to come.

Dan LeFebvre: [00:22:33] I’m sure you get a lot of people talking about Downton Abbey. When you visit, when they visit, what’s one of the more common questions that you keep answering over and over?

Lady Carnarvon: [00:22:41] I don’t really know that there is one in particular. I mean, I think. It is Highclere castle. It’s far bigger in some ways. In Downton Abbey, there’s 250 to 300 rooms in Downton Abbey. You see some of them, and it’s bigger in terms of the landscape, the park, the fencing, the history, and the time. So it’s a wonderful model of when people come, if it brings them here, 80% then choose to go to the Egyptian exhibition reflecting the fifth L’s history and the discovery of juicing.

Carmen. By lots of people enjoy the gardens, which again, are very much the gardens of Jodi’s and mine, and now there’s a good hour’s walk and pottering around the gardens, which again, are more Highclere, if you like, than Dan too. Although bits of them have been used in downtown. But it’s the scale there sometimes, which is hard to traverse because normally, you know, a seed is at least 30 seconds long if you like, and you can see a little bit.

So it’s not actually, it’s as many questions about one or another. And often they’re saying, you know, usually it’s, what’s it like to live in a castle? One

Dan LeFebvre: [00:23:47] thing. I’m really curious about that. It’s funny, as I was preparing for this, my sister-in-law, Heather, she’s a huge fan, and she sent me an article from vanity fair that mentioned that the queen liked to watch the TV series and point out things that they got wrong.

So I have to ask, have you ever had conversations with the queen about the real history.

Lady Carnarvon: [00:24:04] Oh my goodness. The queen has, was it a longstanding friend of my father in law, so she would know the history from my father in law. So it’s a little bit different.

Dan LeFebvre: [00:24:16] So have you learned some of the history from her then?

Lady Carnarvon: [00:24:19] No, know I wouldn’t. I mean, that’s really not how it works either. So, so, but you know, my, she has known my father, she knew my father in laws since, you know, since they were 16 or 17 years old. So. And perhaps it’s been a wonderful place to escape to away from other people’s eyes.

Dan LeFebvre: [00:24:39] Oh, earlier you mentioned that during the time of of Dante, I mean the early 20th century, things were a little different and there was more staff there.

How do you think that they did portraying the, the servants and that side of the series.

Lady Carnarvon: [00:24:55] I think there was interaction reaction, which they, which they did clearly show upstairs and downstairs, but it’s the same as today. You know, Diana had housekeeper. Is is a huge friend. I’m still lady Kanab and she’s still Diana or when things going wrong for her or not right?

Not right for me. I hope I’d be the first to give her an enormous hug as she would to me. So there’s, it is a big community today, and it was then in the time of the Edwardian times as well when Downton Abbey started. So it’s about community. Family support at Highclere has been a community and it’s been in business for 1200 years at least.

So there’s some things clearly that we’re getting

right.

Dan LeFebvre: [00:25:42] Yeah, for sure. Now, if you put yourself in the director’s chair, was there anything after you watched this, either the series or the movie that you wished they had done differently.

Lady Carnarvon: [00:25:52] I learnt that they were a film crew and they were creating a costume drama.

So just not, so therefore I was going to chill about it.

Dan LeFebvre: [00:26:01] It’s not a documentary,

Lady Carnarvon: [00:26:03] it’s not a documentary, and that’s not what it’s about. And it’s, and so, you know, there’s, I, so that’s, that’s how I approached it.

Dan LeFebvre: [00:26:11] And were there any parts that you were happy that they did include?

Lady Carnarvon: [00:26:14] No, I honestly don’t think like that at all.

You know, I, I just don’t worry about it. I. I think there’s more activity outside on the land. These houses need people outside than perhaps has shown. So I think that’s a little bit different. And you know, Julian and Emma fellows stayed with me. I asked them down to watch a cricket match. So that was great.

They put a cricket match in it. They obviously, you know, some of, we have concerts here, we, we, we dance here. So some of that comes through in different ways, different portrayals. But. You know, they know how it works for us. So they do say, we have Christmas here. They put the Christmas tree in the same place.

So it’s just things like that, I guess.

Dan LeFebvre: [00:26:57] Thank you so much for your time to chat about the real Downton Abbey. I know you’ve written multiple books on the real stories. Can you give us a little bit more insights into the books that you’ve written and where people can pick up a copy.

Lady Carnarvon: [00:27:11] The book seemed to continue on.

So the first history book I wrote, cause I’ve written books about Egyptology before, but they’re slightly different I guess. But the first history book was called lady Amina and the real dance. And Abby. And it still has such meaning for me. It looks at the Edwardian period and the Royal visit of 1895 and it takes this couple through and this part of the world through into the outbreak of the first world war and the those years of the first world war and how it affected the people, the gardeners from Highclere who went out to fight in Mesopotamia, modern day Iraq, but not all of them came back.

Those who fought in the trenches through the man who came back from the trenches to be nurse. And then it’s the subplot is about the two two commune and Egyptian excavations, which were, did not take place, obviously during the first world war, but then picked up again after the first world war, which then led to the final part of the books is the discovery the two have to soon Carmen and treasure and tragedy.

So that’s that book, which I’ve. Thoroughly enjoyed writing. And it’s still forms part of many talks that I give, and it forms part of the basis of many events we held today in terms of thinking for others. So if Downton Abbey, the series looks in on a house, I hope as a house, we look out for what we can do for other people and after that, but people wrote to me, said, what happens next?

So I then wrote from 1922 again, the tragedy of the death of the fifth Earl in Cairo. To the 20s and the the the Gatsby period, if you like, the jazz bands and the incredibly glamorous life here with the Royals who came to visit the dancing, the Gramaphones, the singing, the parties through to the 30s and then through into the outbreak of the second world war and how that affected Highclere.

And it ends with plane crashes and things like that, which I want to pick up in V E day, this coming year, 75 years since the end of the second world war because a, B, 70 and amongst other planes crashed into the Hill. Just through accident, behind Highclere three days before the end of the second world war and these young American men died.

So it’s a thank you to attribute to them, to remember their names and to say thank you so many of the books. Then spur me on to see what we can do today to raise money for those who serve and save, whether they be American or English, French or German. It’s bringing people together. So those are the two history books.

And then I’ve written a book at home at Highclere, which I wanted to share. It’s a beautiful coffee table book with recipes and food because food is at the heart of life. It what are we going to have to eat to welcome people here Sunday lunch, evening dinner parties. It’s some of the menus collected here over the last century and a half, I suppose, and for weekends and how we live in a castle today.

And then I followed that up with a book just published now Christmas or Highclere, which again is Christmas with a traveler arriving here in 880 to spend Christmas to what it’s like to spend Christmas today. To what we tell. We cook the recipes to thinking about the whole journey we all make towards Christmas to the feast at the middle of it.

And then the journey on after it towards new year and what that meant and the often forgotten celebration of epiphany and now, and then Candlemass lighting, I hope. Lighting a candle in hope for the Springs. So with poems and recipes and traditions and go stories. I hope that will amuse people. In the coming years and as well as this year.

And I then obviously beginning my next book as well. So once you’ve done one, the publishers, what’s the next, what’s next? But you know, I enjoy it and I write a blog every Monday, and that’s now. Shad and are read by thousands of people and I enjoyed it, the Instagram, and for us, the social media is a way of sharing an extraordinary home, which we’re lucky and it’s a privilege to live in, and there’s always a some degree of responsibility and looking after it for those who visit those who wish to visit or live here in the future.

Dan LeFebvre: [00:31:29] I had no idea that there was a, a bomber that went down so close to, to the house was, has there ever been any damage to the house through the Wars.

Lady Carnarvon: [00:31:39] In the second world war for sure. And in fact, on this estate, I have found since the remains of two mosquitoes, the Lysander, which there be 17 a P 38 a Proctor.

And I think I’ve one more yet to find. So these are stories of people through of young men, through which I can tell some of the stories of the second world war that I’ve, we’ve built a Cedar man here. We’ve carved a seed, him and a friend of mine is a wonderful wood sculptor, and he’s carved the, got a sculpture of an airman out of a Cedar tree, which fell over and I put it in the middle of the garden.

So as people go for walks in the summer, in the spring, he’s there and he’s looking up, he’s standing facing the Hills and he’s looking back, smiling at us. Because he’s about to get in his Ferrari, in the sky and fly. And of course underneath them is some of what he became because he didn’t come back. And the names of the man who died here are engraved in boards around the bottom.

So bottom of the sculpture and the benches behind it, a carved a little bit like wings. So that’s where people can sit and think. Which is a good thing to do, reflection and thought. So that’s part of the stories I want to share on may the eighth 2020 and have a speaker’s tent and a fueled planes flying again to remember and say thank you to what all of our ancestors went through for those years and to not forget what they did.

Dan LeFebvre: [00:33:10] Thank you so much for doing that for, I mean, that’s not something that anybody would, would. Put a lot of effort into, I think, and it’s, it’s, it says a lot that you’re willing to do that, to remember those stories and to keep their memories alive and to say thank you to them. So thank you for doing that

Lady Carnarvon: [00:33:28] now.

Dan LeFebvre: [00:33:29] Thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate you coming on and talking about real Downton Abbey. I’ve learned a lot and I’ll make sure to add the links to your books in the show notes for this episode as well.

Lady Carnarvon: [00:33:41] You are so, so kind has been a joy. Thank you very, very much.

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